‘If you think it’s biased, it is biased’: Albanese and Dutton turn to podcasts ahead of election

The Rocky Horror Picture Show, wedding plans and DJ styles aren’t exactly the usual topics for the Australian prime minister in a pre-election interview. 

Yet, Anthony Albanese touched on all of them in the first couple of minutes of his 90 minute, wide-ranging podcast interview with content creator Abbie Chatfield. 

A month or so earlier, Opposition Leader Peter Dutton was talking Mr Potato Head memes on Mark Bouris’ podcast and changing nappies on Olympian Sam Fricker’s.   

Interviews with popular podcasters featured in the 2024 US presidential campaign and now the medium has been embraced by Australian leaders of the major parties as a federal election looms. 

But in Australia, it’s still not clear if the audio programs will be key avenues to undecided voters, or an echo chamber reinforcing the views of a like-minded audience. 

The long-form chats, often cut into catchy snippets on social media, or posted in full on YouTube, attract audiences not always engaged with traditional news media. 

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A way to target specific voters 

Podcasts are most popular among younger listeners and with men, according to the Triton Digital 2024 Australian Podcast Report.

The report found 48 per cent of 18–34-year-olds surveyed had listened to podcasts within the last month, compared to 21 per cent of over 55s. 

In the gender split, the report estimated 42 per cent of men listened each month, compared to 33 per cent of women. 

Before her interview with the Albanese, Abbie Chatfield highlighted that she believed most members of her audience were Greens voters and she has previously stated that many of her listeners are women.  

Young women are still seen as a key base for the Greens and Labor party. 

During the lengthy interview, released last Friday, Albanese made a point about preferential voting and then called on Greens voters to give Labor their second preference over other parties.  

While talking on businessman Mark Bouris’ Straight Talk podcast the opposition leader made a clear pitch to young male voters. 

“Young males feel disenfranchised and they feel ostracised,” Dutton said.  

“{They tell me] I’m being told that I’m sort of ogre, or some sort of belief structure that is true to that … there’s a point where people are fed up.”

Albanese also appeared on this show several weeks ago, and was happy to chat about football, family and policy. 

The digital landscape often feeds this content not to undecided voters, but those who already hold similar views, one digital media expert said. 

“We’ve seen the advent of social media platforms, and the echo chambers it creates,” said Professor Raffelo Cirello, from the University of Sydney. 

“It can often lead to people segregating into communities of like-minded people.”

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The Trump approach to podcasts 

Some shows promise powerful reach to key demographics, but the performance of leaders is still key. 

Podcasts demand leaders abandon political speak — the talking points and focused party messages — and embrace a more casual and relaxed conversation style.  

Humour, personal stories and relatability become key. 

In Australia, the Triton rankings often show society and culture, comedy and true crime podcasts attract the largest audience. 

Following the US election, Professor Ciriello and Assistant Professor Vitali Mindel conducted research into the influence of podcasts on the presidential race. 

Their initial findings found Donald Trump’s podcast strategy during the election campaign significantly boosted his support – perhaps by as much as 1 to 2.6 per cent. 

Much of this was attributed to his appearance on the popular Joe Rogan Experience podcast, which has an extremely large, mostly male audience. 

“For a lot of people … after seeing Donald Trump on the Joe Rogan experience – that’s what got them,” Professor Ciriello said about his research currently under peer review.  

“Joe Rogan and the like have boosted Trump’s support among young male voters, whereas if you compare that to Kamala Harris, she relied on more traditional, curated media, like TV debates and appearances.” 

Many of the podcasts Trump appeared on weren’t news podcasts but shows with internet personalities with large male audiences while Kamala Harris appeared on several shows, including the popular Call Her Daddy podcast, which has millions of women listeners. 

Edison Research found that Trump’s appearance on 20 podcasts, compared to Kamala Harris’ eight shows, secured him an audience reach of more than 23 million people in an average week, compared to Harris’ 6.4 million.  

In Australia, podcast reach is significantly smaller, but if it’s with the right demographics it could still prove powerful. 

Podcasters play by different rules 

Podcasters, who are often media and internet personalities, play by different rules to traditional political reporters, offering interviews that can be friendlier, more conversational and more agreeable. 

Chatfield explained her approach to her interview in a more than 5-minute-long preamble at the start of her podcast. 

“My primary goal in this is to get the Labor Government back into government,” she said.  

“If you think this is biased, it is biased. 

“It isn’t perfect conversation, just as the Labor Party isn’t the perfect party, but I do prefer Labor to the Liberal Party.” 

She did press the prime minister on some topics like carbon emissions, the Gaza conflict and whether Labor will work with the Greens in the future. She said she plans to interview Greens leader Adam Bandt and has requested interviews with Dutton and former Liberal prime Minister malcolm Turnbull. 

“I’m going ‘c’mon Liberal boys’,” she said on her podcast. 

In Australia, Dutton so far appears to be replicating Trump’s podcast strategy, with appearances on shows with mostly male audiences. Albanese appears to be trying a different strategy with appeals to young people and woman. 

This will all be supplemented by more traditional appearances on TV, radio, print, and self-created social media content. 

“I think it would probably be an overreach to say that podcasts alone will decide the election, but I think it’s safe to say that they will play a role,” Professor Ciriello said.